← All Episodes
Behind the Ticker

Paisley Nardini, Simplify

Managed Futures Made Simple for Advisors

·32 min

Paisley Nardini grew up in rural Northern Minnesota with no Wall Street aspirations. An amazing program during her undergrad studies changed that trajectory, and she started her career as a short-term bond trader in San Francisco, waking up at 3:30 AM to catch the markets. After four years behind a Bloomberg screen, she moved to the client-facing side at PIMCO working with institutional clients like pensions, endowments, and sovereign wealth funds. She spent the last eight or nine years blending client-facing work with multi-asset portfolio management before landing at Simplify Asset Management as Vice President and Client Portfolio Strategist. She's also president of the CFA Society Orange County, where she's volunteered for eight years. Outside of work, she's into pickle ball (the first time she played against a woman in her 60s, she "got it handed to me").

On this episode of Behind the Ticker, recorded live at the Exchange ETF conference in Vegas, Paisley breaks down CTA, Simplify's Managed Futures ETF. The fund uses four distinct signals to drive active asset allocation across commodities, rates, and equities, and it's been delivering equity-like returns while staying anti-correlated to stocks.

Simplify's DNA

Simplify launched in 2020 on the back of SEC rule 18F-4, which provided clearer guidance around the use of derivatives in ETFs. The firm has grown to $7.1 billion in AUM across 35-plus ETFs in about four and a half years. Morningstar named them the second fastest growing ETF provider last year. The team is loaded with ex-PIMCO people, including portfolio managers who spent much of their careers next to Bill Gross. That PIMCO DNA shows up in their approach: structural alpha through derivatives, systematic repeatable return streams rather than big duration or credit bets.

Four Signals Working Together

CTA runs on four pillars: trend following at three different time horizons (short, medium, and long term), carry, mean reversion, and a risk-off inter-market signal. The fund rebalances daily, evaluating all four signals every single day. The signals counter-balance each other: if trend says go long gold but mean reversion says gold is extended, the position sizing gets dampened. The carry signal captures the cost or benefit of holding positions. And the risk-off model kicks in during equity drawdowns to shift the portfolio's posture.

Paisley explained a critical design choice: CTA was intentionally built to trade only commodities and interest rate futures, not equities or currencies. This was deliberate. They wanted to provide the most capital-efficient diversifier possible. If you're adding managed futures to a portfolio that already has equities, you don't want the managed futures fund also trading equities. That would reduce the diversification benefit. By focusing on commodities and rates, CTA provides the purest anti-correlation to equity portfolios.

Risk-Off in Real Time

Two recent examples showed the risk-off signal working. In mid-December, when the Fed pivoted more hawkish and equities sold off, CTA shifted to long bond positions in interest rate futures. This was notable because since inception, the fund had primarily held short interest rate futures due to negative carry in the rate environment. The signal overrode the carry input. Then in February, as commodities sold off alongside equities, the fund scaled out of almost all long commodity positions in about two weeks, went short commodities, and simultaneously went long the two-year and five-year in both Canadian and U.S. rates. "The positioning adjusted pretty dynamically," Paisley said.

The Case for Managed Futures

Going back roughly 25 years to when the SocGen managed futures index was first developed, managed futures have outperformed both stocks and bonds during every period of crisis: the tech bubble, the GFC, COVID, 2022. But the outperformance isn't limited to crisis periods. Over the full 25 years, managed futures have outperformed core bonds, providing better downside capture within a broader portfolio and smoothing overall returns.

Simplify's CTA has been particularly aggressive compared to peers. With fewer constraints and the ability to go all-in on trending markets, the fund has produced top-percentile returns. As of the recording, CTA had performed essentially in line with the S&P 500 since inception while being anti-correlated. "To provide equity-like returns in a market environment where it's been very attractive for the S&P 500 over the last three years and to do so while being anti-correlated, it kind of speaks for itself," Paisley said. The fund had already crossed $1 billion in AUM, validating the thesis with real advisor dollars.

Key Takeaways

  • CTA uses four signals (trend at three time horizons, carry, mean reversion, and risk-off inter-market) rebalanced daily across commodities and interest rate futures only, no equities or currencies, for maximum diversification benefit.
  • The fund has matched S&P 500 returns since inception while maintaining anti-correlation to equities. Over $1 billion in AUM in about four years.
  • Managed futures have outperformed stocks and bonds during every major crisis over the past 25 years: tech bubble, GFC, COVID, and 2022.
  • The risk-off signal triggered in both mid-December and February, dynamically shifting from short to long rates and from long to short commodities within days.
  • Simplify manages over $7.1 billion across 35+ ETFs. The firm is loaded with ex-PIMCO talent, including PMs who worked alongside Bill Gross.

Listen to the full conversation on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.

Full Transcript

5,680 words

Machine transcribed from Brad Roth's conversation with Paisley Nardini, Simplify, with speakers identified automatically. Timestamps link to that moment on YouTube. Lightly cleaned, otherwise unedited.

0:00
Brad Roth

Behind the Ticker is brought to you by UX Wealth Partners. If you're a TAMP user and you're sick and tired of the legacy technology they are run on and you want more customization and flexibility, as well as an AI-driven model marketplace, UX Wealth Partners is your destination. On top of that, they have institutional trading. So if you are an ETF issuer or an SMA provider looking for outsourced institutional trading, UX Wealth can also be your destination. So check out uxwp.com to find out all the ways UX Wealth Partners can help grow and make your practice more efficient.

0:55

Welcome to Behind the Ticker. Today we have on Paisley Nardini. She is Vice President and Client Portfolio Strategist at Simplify Asset Management. We are diving right into their Simplify Managed Futures ETF, ticker CTA. They picked a good one there. But really interesting strategy. It employs four different signals to come up with the underlying active asset allocation. It's done very well, specifically in times of volatility. But I will let Paisley tell the story. So without further ado, please welcome Paisley Nardini. All right. We are live again from the Exchange ETF Conference in Vegas.

1:40

I am here with Paisley Nardini. Did I get that right, Nardini? You did. Yeah. Nailed it. I keep wanting to say Narduzzi because Pat Narduzzi was the coach for the Pitt Panthers football team. And I almost... We have a lot in common. No, I'm kidding. But Paisley, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So before we get started, why don't you give everybody a bit about your background and how you ended up in your role at Simplify? Yeah, absolutely.

2:01
Paisley Nardini

So I grew up in northern Minnesota, went to school in northern Minnesota, grew up in very rural farm town. So my aspirations of being on Wall Street were never really there, I would say. I didn't grow up being like, oh, I want to trade bonds and stocks. But I was introduced to an amazing program in my undergrad studies and ended up majoring in financial markets. And that really kicked off my career. And so I started as a short-term bond trader up in San Francisco, which was a big shock, like moving from northern Minnesota to San Francisco. You see a lot that you've never seen before, but was super fun. And really became attracted to the backdrop of what I think goes on in the fixed income

Read the full transcript (58 more sections)
2:46

World, which is this macro-driven approach to thinking about markets, economic data. And so I spent about four years behind a Bloomberg screen trading bonds, waking up at 3.30 in the morning, which is a, being in my early 20s, that wasn't exactly the path I was hoping for. It was really difficult to be social when everybody's grabbing dinner at 8 o'clock and you were going to bed at 8. So I decided to step out of just the fixed income trading world and into more of the client-facing sales capacity. I was at PIMCO for a couple of years working with institutional clients. That's most of my career thus far has been in front of pensions, endowments, foundations, sovereign wealth funds. And then just decided that this nice blend between client-facing and portfolio management

3:32

Was where I'm best suited. So being able to understand the strategies from how they work, from a positioning perspective, the impact of a market, and then having to articulate that and work with clients, I think at the end of the day is what's most fulfilling for me. So I've spent the last eight or nine years in this kind of multi-asset portfolio management slash strategist capacity, learning a lot. And I would say too, like at the end of the day, most investors, whether it's large institutions or small advisors, are all looking for kind of the same thing. So there's a lot of themes and commonalities, I would say, irrespective of the client base.

4:10
Brad Roth

So before we get into the weeds, what about outside of work, any hobbies, things you like to do?

4:15
Paisley Nardini

Ooh, so this is my least favorite question. This should be the easiest question when you get interviewed. Like, who are you? What do you do for fun? Um, most of my friends and family would laugh and say most of my free time is spent volunteering for the CFA Society. Um, I will say part of, um, what drew me to volunteering, I've been on the board for about eight years. I'm the president right now, CFA Orange County, is a student managed investment fund. So I had mentioned my undergrad studies was introduced to a student managed investment fund as well. So, uh, I spent a lot of time volunteering, mentoring, finding career, career paths for these students guidance and just setting them up for success, um, outside of finance and that

4:57

World. Um, I just actually signed up to take some pickleball lessons. I realize I'm like 30 years too young and maybe like four years too late to this trend, but, um, some more social elements, perhaps the sports, but I live by the beach in Orange County, California. I can't complain. Uh, spend a lot of time outside riding e-bikes, uh, going to the beach, hiking, that, that sort of thing.

5:19
Brad Roth

Yeah. Yeah. We, uh, I just picked up pickleball and you're right. I would think the both of us are probably 30 years for it, but I did play, uh, she was probably in her sixties and she whooped me. It's gnarly.

5:33
Paisley Nardini

It's, it's an incredible workout. The first time I played, I'm like, Oh, a bunch of old people play. Okay. I got it handed to me.

5:39
Brad Roth

I'll just say that. The sad thing is, is like pickleball just started taking off and now you've got Padel. Have you seen Padel?

5:45
Paisley Nardini

I've heard of it. I'm like the, the industry of pickleball racket sports is evolving too quickly. I can't keep up.

5:52
Brad Roth

So, so let's go to simplify kind of as a whole. Um, what all do you guys do for clients? I know you have the ETFs. We're going to talk about, uh, one of them today, but what else do you guys do to really help and assist clients? Yeah.

6:05
Paisley Nardini

So simplify asset management launched back in 2020 on the back of a SEC rule change 18 F4 that just provided more guidance around the use of derivatives. And so this really opened the door for a lot of new active ETFs to launch and simplify was one of them. So we're really labeled as an alternative ETF provider. And I think what I've been trying to do more of in the last couple months is really shine a light on the fact that we're not just that diversifier bucket in your portfolio. We have a lot of core active ETFs in our lineup, whether it be active fixed income, whether it be, uh, systematic approaches within equity. And then of course, more of those pure, alternative diversifiers as well.

6:45

Uh, but I think it's helpful just to maybe understand some of the composition of who works at simplify. We have a lot of ex PIMCO people, myself included. And so really thinking about that theme of structural alpha, the use of derivatives, um, to achieve more kind of like systematic repeatable return streams beyond just taking large bets and duration or credit risk. Um, so we have some wonderful portfolio managers who work now at simplify who, spent much of their career next to bill gross. Uh, so some of that flavor within our active fixed income lineup, uh, a lot of derivative option overlay strategies within equities. So, the buffer ETFs are obviously, um, I've seen a lot of success, so we don't have

7:28

An explicit line of buffer ETFs, but similar kind of outcome defined outcome, um, thinking about protection on the downside and perhaps capping some of the upside. For more certainty. And then also just thinking about that kind of true bread and butter alternatives, whether it's equity long, short, whether it's currency, we'll talk today about managed futures and trend following and more hedge fund driven approaches. Um, so as of today, we're about 7.1 billion in AUM. Again, we just launched about four and a half years ago. So it's pretty impressive growth. I think Morningstar named us maybe the second fastest growing ETF provider last year. Um, and so continuing to bring innovative solutions to the marketplace really across all asset classes.

8:10
Brad Roth

Well, you guys have done an amazing job at, at marketing and getting your name out there. I'm sure that's where a lot of that growth came from. I can't get on LinkedIn without seeing a simplify ad or banner. Sorry about that. That's fine. You guys are getting the word out there, but I think now's the appropriate time really with some of the volatility that is going on in the markets to talk about a more pure diversifier. We're going to talk about your managed future strategy today, which historically, um, have performed pretty well in periods of uncertainty. So the ticker there is CTA. So at a very high level, what is the simplify managed future strategy ETF again, ticker CTA and what role do you think it plays in a diversified portfolio?

8:51
Paisley Nardini

Yeah. So I would start by saying, what is CTA? Um, so CTA, which is also kind of a clever ticker, uh, cause we're talking about managed futures. Typically we're talking about, um, CTAs as an industry. And so we're really looking at how do we use underlying derivative contracts, i.e. futures, um, to take advantage of dislocations in the marketplace with the kind of underpinning of how managed futures are, um, allocated to is really on a trend based model. So for those of our listeners that maybe aren't familiar with trend strategies and more of the hedge fund space, I always liken it to in the, in the equity space around factors, the momentum factor. And so the belief that, objects in motion tend to stay in motion.

9:34

That's really what we're looking to harvest is these price fluctuations and capitalizing on these trends, whether it be long or short. And I think to maybe your point on, um, the importance of long, short opportunity set in this market with heightened volatility, more disruption, um, the ability to take short positions is also very advantageous. So CTA in particular, um, is looking at futures contracts in both the commodity space. As well as interest rate futures. And I highlight that because, uh, in managed futures broadly, you can really have access to all parts of the market, equity, foreign exchange, crypto now as well. Um, we were very intentional at the launch of our strategy to provide our clients with the most capital efficient diversifier in their portfolio.

10:21

Because at the end of the day, if you're pulling away from that 60, 40, whether it be stocks or bonds or both, um, you really want to ensure that you're going to have a diversified source of risk and return. And so by excluding equity and FX, we knew we could provide our clients with a diversifier. Um, and then again, that ability to go long and short. So our contracts are all traded in North American hours so that we are providing heightened liquidity. Our market maker is easier for transaction purposes. Um, and so CTA launched in March of 2022. We just passed our three-year anniversary and I would say we far exceeded expectations, um, which I'll get into in a bit here in performance as well.

11:03
Brad Roth

Yeah. performance has been great. Asset raise has been great. the AUM is there. So if I understand it correctly, the strategy incorporates four different models. You've got a price trend, a mean reversion, a carry, and a risk off. So how do each of these models contribute to the fund's performance? And, I know the answer to this question, but I'll have you explain it in what market environments is this really going to be most effective? Yeah.

11:26
Paisley Nardini

So I would start by saying that our managed futures product, CTA, is differentiated and not only that it only includes commodity and interest rates. Again, many of our peers have equity and FX, but it's also differentiated in the kind of the four indicator model or signal that you just outlined. So if you think about managed futures, kind of a core principle of how they're managed is the trend model. We absolutely have a trend model within our strategy. It is the core from a positioning perspective. We also complement that trend signal with the three other components that you spoke to. So I would say second after trend is the fundamental reversion.

12:07

The way I would liken this is really to think about it's a counterbalance to trend. So as we know, trends, objects in motion tend to stay in motion. As that continues and the trend perhaps gets long in the tooth a bit, this second signal or model, the fundamental reversion is really going to look to amplify or dampen that trend based on macro signals. So this starts to start, a little bit bleed into that kind of macro hedge fund type strategy instead of just a pure trend strategy. And the fundamental reversion signal actually is anti-correlated to trend. So why that's beneficial is as trends shift, you have this counterbalance, again, to amplify or dampen the positioning signal.

12:51

And just to clarify as well, our trend model has a multi-horizon outlook. So we have a short-term, medium-term, and long-term trend, which is something if our listeners are immersed in the trend world, you'll hear quite a bit of that and talking about what trend timeframe works for or against these strategies at a given point in time. And the additional indicator that we rely on is called the intermarket factor. And a very easy way to understand what this is looking at is thinking about the relationship between asset classes and what that means kind of for their future potential. So if we look at just the last couple of weeks in market volatility, there's been a meaningful drawdown in equity prices. Historically, what does that mean from a bond market perspective?

13:33

It usually means that bonds see a little bit of that flight to safety trade or a little bit of a kind of risk sentiment shift. And so as equities sell off, our indicators are going to be supportive of taking long positions in bonds and vice versa. Our model has actually been quite short interest rate futures over the last two to three years because equities have continued to rip. So that third signal or indicator is really that counterbalance of what's from a macro perspective, how our asset class is behaving, and then do we amplify or dampen our signals based on that relationship? And then the fourth signal, sorry, that you mentioned is really important as it relates to our interest rate positioning, and that is the carry signal.

14:15

And the reason that this is very important is that we are funding these futures positions and underlying front end rates, treasury bill collateral. And so if the curve is inverted as it has been over the last several years, it's not advantageous to fund these positions from short term treasury bills because you're really losing out on that carry trade, the curve is inverted. And so as a result, that fourth component is very important as it relates to interest rates, and it's giving us a more holistic viewpoint on where we want to position within the interest rate curve. So again, these four signals are very much hedge fund like, and the reason being, and I haven't mentioned this yet, but simplify where we don't have in-house capabilities that we feel

14:57

Are robust, or industry leading, we'll partner with outside managers. And so Simplify, at the inception of the strategy, partnered with Altus Partners, a hedge fund based out of the UK, and they run a very similar model in-house for their hedge fund clients. They also have separate account clients as well that are relying on these four models. So if it sounds institutional hedge fund-like, it's because it absolutely is, and it did come from the hedge fund world.

15:21
Brad Roth

Yeah. So I now have like 40 questions from what you just said, so I'm going to try to simplify it for time. So you've got momentum model, long, short, or I'm sorry, short duration, medium term, long duration. I'm assuming position sizing, if all three are risk on, you're going to start to amp up those positions. You get some conflicting. That's going to help you manage position sizing. Absolutely. And then what you would also said is your mean reversion model, as you're right on a signal, that mean reversion is probably going to have you start to dampen position size in time. So it's all kind of working together.

16:00
Paisley Nardini

The sizing of the daily positions, we're rebalancing on a daily basis. So every single day, we're looking at those four signals. And as you said, they're counterbalancing each other, amplifying, dampening those signals to ensure that, again, we're not going all in on gold as gold's about to turn, for instance.

16:17
Brad Roth

So do you have mean reversion type signal on each of the three different, I guess, momentum timeframes? Or is it one master kind of, you're looking at longer term cycle, this thing is probably, I don't know, a little bit outside of bounds. Therefore, we want to dampen our position size a little bit. Yeah.

16:39
Paisley Nardini

So we do have like the three time horizons I mentioned for the trend model, short, medium, and long term. We are looking at the counterbalance of, to your point, kind of this mean reversion factor. And it's more in like kind of a holistic viewpoint. So we're kind of taking it above like those three individual time horizons and then looking at them at more like the top level to counteract.

17:03
Brad Roth

Yeah. So I want to ask you about kind of the fourth pillar there, which is the risk-off model. it's kind of designed to provide protection during, equity drawdown and volatility. How does this really work to reduce portfolio risk when markets become more volatile and, you're shifting and I'm assuming safer assets like bonds or how does that risk off trade work?

17:24
Paisley Nardini

Yeah, exactly. So the two most recent examples were in mid-December when we saw a bit of kind of like the Fed pivot, a little bit more hawkish stance. We saw sell-off in equities, I think I said like mid-December. That caused us to go pretty far into our longer bond positions. And again, like since inception, we've primarily held short interest rate futures positions. We've been short interest rates because of the negative carry component I mentioned. And so it's unusual to see these all of a sudden these long notional positions in our interest rate futures. And it has been in the most recent equity drawdown. So mid-December was one.

18:04

Or again, we call that our inner market factor. And then we saw that again in February. So coming in like through January, we had quite a bit of like long commodity positions, just given some of the more risk-off tone we saw broadly. Hadn't trickled quite into equities yet. And then in February, we really scaled out of almost all of our commodity position, which we saw a commodity sell-off alongside equities in kind of that mid-February, late February time horizon. So the positioning in the fund adjusted pretty quickly and pretty dynamically. So over the course of two weeks, kind of pulled out of most of our long commodity positions, started to go short commodities. And at that exact same time, because of this inner market factor with the equity sell-off,

18:48

All of a sudden we were long the two-year. We were long the five-year in both Canadian and U.S. rates as well. And since we've started to see a little bit of this pullback or maybe a floor in equity prices, we've started to see some of that kind of counterbalance as well. So that inner market factor is really important because if you think about what you're doing in a trend-following strategy, you have to be able to pivot quickly. And that goes back to one of our other differentiators is we're capturing the signal and then trading on that. So meaning Altus Partners is sending us the signal at close of business London time each day, and we're trading on it at simplified by close of business New York time.

19:29

So that latency in between signal to trade is really important to capture some of these really quick movements or shifts in the market.

19:36
Brad Roth

Well, every great CTA has to be able to change their mind immediately. Yes. So I totally understand that.

19:41
Paisley Nardini

And there's also some research out there that says for strategies that are trading so quickly, there are downsides of that as well, right? You can have these whipsaws or these false signals or just increased trading costs. But at the end of the day, you're really trying to capture that alpha. And the longer it takes you to put that into the portfolio, the more decay you have of that alpha. So we stand beside, which most hedge funds do as well, even intraday trading. So the fact that we've brought this down to a couple hours from signal to trade is about as hedge fund as it gets in the liquid ETF wrapper.

20:14
Brad Roth

So given the broad use of futures contracts here, is there any leverage in this ETF? I know you have to use leverage, but are you kind of probably running net notion? I know it moves around, but is there any, are you ever getting levered long or short?

20:33
Paisley Nardini

Yeah. So just by nature, of course, the use of futures contracts, there's implied leverage within these. You only have to put X amount down in margin in order to get an outsized exposure through notional in these futures contracts. So there is embedded leverage and just investing in futures contracts, of course. We have one risk constraint in our CTA ETF, which is a 25% margin to equity ratio. And so the underlying notional exposure that we're achieving in this strategy is far greater than the margin that we have to post as collateral. And so again, that 25% margin to equity ratio is imposed on us.

21:13

This isn't us just coming up with this. So it is an outside third party. So I think that helps with a bit of the checks and balances. And I would say for anyone listening that might be concerned on that embedded leverage, historically, CTA has been around 12 to maybe 13 or 14% margin to equity. So again, our cap is 25%. We are far below that. And all of the other so-called risk constraints that could be applied, we don't have constraints beyond that 25% margin to equity ratio. So what that means is we don't have sector caps, we don't have position caps. And that is very intentional as well, because like anytime you're taking active risk, it's usually a very few subset of whether you're picking individual stocks or selecting futures

21:58

Contracts that are driving that alpha. And so by having less constraints on where we can go and how much we can go, we're able to capture some of those outsized positions. And a great example of that would be in 2024, anyone that was following the cocoa market closely, which I doubt many people were. I love chocolate, so I was on it. But just given some of the weather patterns we're seeing in areas where they're growing some of these soft agricultural commodities, it's had a really meaningful impact on prices. And so cocoa was up 200 to 300% last year, and we rode the wave on that. That was one of our greatest contributors to positive performance and outsized returns last year. Another one was just being short interest rate futures.

22:40

And that goes back to that carry signal. Many of the other trend following systematic trend managed future strategies were long interest rate futures with the expectations rates were going to fall and there was going to be a nice tailwind. So our carry signal is really important. But going back to your question, less constraints on sector contracts, notional allows us to be more dynamic.

23:03
Brad Roth

So the fund is focusing on absolute return. And so how does CTA manage those periods of relative underperformance? Every CTA has those areas of relative underperformance, especially environments where commodities or interest rates may not be in a favorable trend. So how do you guys try to communicate that over at Simplify to clients to weather the storm sometimes during those periods of kind of relative underperformance?

23:34
Paisley Nardini

Yeah. So I would say for starters, and this transcends our strategy just in general, trend following, anytime there's major whipsaws in the market, trend following is usually going to be cut offsides. That's the common pitfall. It's like you ride the wave, objects in motion tend to stay in motion until they do not. So when we have these kind of quick shifts in market sentiment, we see meaningful sell-offs. It usually can take a couple days for trend following to pick back up. If you look at a chart of our strategy and kind of that mid-February sell-off we just experienced, we rode the wave down for a couple days with the broader market. And then we're able to kind of reposition, as I briefly mentioned. And then we kind of saw that kind of divergence between our strategy and equity markets broadly.

24:18

So making sure clients understand what environments does trend following do well in. And of course, not to state the obvious, when we have trends in asset prices, whether it's in commodities, whether it's in interest rates, or for those that do trade equities, kind of like the status quo and kind of like that, I don't want to say lower volatility environment, but that's really beneficial when we see these prolonged trends where you can capture those trends. Whipsaws, as I said, is kind of where you get caught offside. So having that kind of reduced latency of signal to trade is also really important to make sure you can reposition. And then I would say even broader, a lot of why managed futures did not perform very well

25:02

In the post-GFC era was just where we were from an interest rate perspective. So underlying collateral for managed futures is often treasury bills. If treasury bills are yielding zero, that's your starting point. So these are absolute return strategies. So T-bill collateral returns and yield is your starting point. So if that's zero, you really need to shoot for the stars if you want to provide attractive absolute return. And that's why managed futures didn't get much love in that 2010 to 2019 period. So that's a really great starting point today and has been really since mid-2022 when managed futures kind of reemerged as this important source of absolute return in portfolios is you had really high starting yields.

25:44

And then any additional incremental return is just alpha or icing on the cake.

25:48
Brad Roth

So we know CTAs are great in terms of diversification and overall kind of like model portfolio. So, how does this low correlation equity specifically benefit investors during periods of market downturns? Yeah.

26:02
Paisley Nardini

So as we know, kind of like going back to the basics of asset allocation, anytime you can combine assets together in a portfolio when they have a correlation that's less than one, there's going to be a benefit to the overall volatility. So by having a low and in our instance, we've even posted negative correlation. So it's anti-correlated to stocks and bonds. There's a tremendous value or benefit to those of us that are combining this, which 99.9% of us are, with stocks, with bonds. And so when we have these periods of market drawdown, whether it's in stocks or bonds, the benefit from a correlation perspective to smooth volatility, to smooth the drawdowns is tremendous as it relates to portfolio construction.

26:47

I think just pointing out again, in February, the most recent sell-off we saw, the ability then to kind of pivot and take advantage of all of a sudden asset prices are trending lower and the ability again to take short positions, capitalize on that, provide attractive absolute returns as the broader market selling off is really, really attractive. And so there's been a lot of discussion in the last couple of weeks, as there is anytime we see these market sell-offs, it's like, is the 60-40 dead? How do we build a portfolio if we can't do a 60-40 anymore? And I always say, if you say the 60-40 is dead, you're saying diversification is dead. And it's quite the opposite. From our perspective, diversification is alive and well.

27:31

And so it's like, we try to educate and help our clients understand that the 60-40 was the best set of, like, it's your best toolkit at the time when that was first constructed. We have so many other unique, innovative strategies in the marketplace today that provide low correlation to help smooth returns, reduce drawdown risk. So it's more of like that 50-30-20 that just builds a more stable kind of portfolio. And CTA strategies, managed futures, really provide that most, the best bang for your buck. If you're getting low to no correlation and attractive absolute returns, like there's not much more you can ask for in a portfolio.

28:07
Brad Roth

Yeah, let's talk about, kind of this attractive return because CTA has had, really attractive returns, especially during risk-off environments. So what specific features of the fund, in your opinion, make it really effective that like crisis alpha? And how do you measure its success in kind of these types of, environments?

28:26
Paisley Nardini

Yeah, I'll start by highlighting that managed futures are a very nascent asset class in the broad scheme of portfolio construction. So part of my job is not just convincing our clients that CTA is the right managed future strategy for them. It's helping them understand why they would even want managed futures in a portfolio to begin with. So to your point on, have they behaved as expected? Have they delivered as promised? And if we go back to roughly 2000, so about 25 years ago, that's when the managed futures index from SockGen was first developed. And you look at the periods of crisis we've experienced, whether it's the tech bubble, whether it's the GFC, whether it's COVID-19, whether it's 2022.

29:12

Two, managed futures have delivered, meaning they have outperformed stocks. They have outperformed bonds in each of these environments by providing better downside capture within a portfolio. So they've smoothed your overall portfolio return. So I'd like to just start with that. And then the other thing I think is really important is if you look back over the last 25 years, managed futures have outperformed core bonds. And again, managed futures are not here to provide necessarily income for clients that need that. So I'm not saying we should get rid of bonds and replace it all with managed futures. But over a long, it's not just in those periods of crisis that they deliver. Like over time, because they can protect in those short periods of drawdown, they're very

29:54

Advantageous in a broader portfolio setting. And then more specifically, looking at our strategy, I think, again, the less constraints that we've had and the ability to kind of go all in on some of these markets as they're trending and take advantage of that, we've been able to produce really attractive alpha, not only relative to our peers or the index, which we have. Our three-in-one-year ratings were in the top percentile. We've actually outperformed or in line with the S&P 500 going back to the inception. I just looked at it this morning. We're essentially on top of each other when it comes to S&P 500 versus our CTA ETF.

30:37

And so to provide equity-like returns in a market environment where it's been very attractive for the S&P 500 over the last three years and to do so while being anti-correlated, going back to my earlier comment, like it kind of speaks for itself.

30:52
Brad Roth

Well, that's probably why the fund has a billion dollars in it. And you guys have done a really great job. Paisley, I can't thank you enough for being here with me. One thing before I let you go, where can people learn more about Simplify and find all the information about your funds?

31:04
Paisley Nardini

Yeah, go to our website, simplify.us. We have a whole lineup of our 35-plus ETFs, about $7.1 billion in AUM today. We're continuing to grow the lineup. But we're also very accessible. We're all over social media. We're at conferences. We love when people reach out to us directly. We get a lot of random inquiries on our website. We respond to all of them. So don't ever hesitate to find any of us. And we're happy to help and happy to be here. And thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, thanks for being with me. Cool. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

31:44
Brad Roth

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

31:48
Paisley Nardini

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.