Greg Reid
Real Assets and Income: The Westwood MDST Strategy
Greg Reid is a portfolio manager at Westwood Holdings Group who manages MDST, the Westwood Salient Enhanced Midstream Income ETF. Greg spent over two decades in the energy sector, including time at Morgan Stanley and several energy-focused investment firms, before joining Westwood. His career has spanned the full cycle of energy investing, from the shale revolution through the oil price collapse of 2014-2016 and the COVID-era crash that sent crude oil prices briefly negative.
On this episode, Greg talks with Brad about why midstream energy companies are fundamentally different from other energy investments, how MDST generates yield through covered call strategies on midstream positions, and what the energy transition means for pipeline companies over the next decade.
Midstream 101: Why It's Not What People Think
Greg starts by addressing the biggest misconception about midstream energy: that it's a commodity price play. Unlike exploration and production companies whose earnings swing dramatically with oil and gas prices, midstream operators are essentially toll collectors. They own pipelines, processing plants, storage facilities, and terminals. Revenue comes from long-term contracts with volume-based or fixed fees, not from the price of the commodity flowing through the pipes. Greg likens it to owning a toll road: you get paid based on how many cars cross the bridge, not on the price of the cars.
The midstream sector has also undergone a massive structural transformation over the past decade. After the MLP (Master Limited Partnership) boom and bust, many of the largest midstream companies converted from MLPs to C-corporations, simplifying their governance and eliminating the K-1 tax headaches that kept many institutional investors and retail advisors away. Companies like Enterprise Products Partners, Energy Transfer, and Williams Companies now have investment-grade balance sheets, coverage ratios well above 1x, and free cash flow yields that Greg describes as the healthiest in the sector's history.
How MDST Enhances Yield
MDST starts with a concentrated portfolio of midstream equities, typically holding 20 to 30 names. The base dividend yield from these companies generally runs in the 5-7% range. On top of that, the fund sells covered call options on individual positions to generate additional income. Greg explains that midstream stocks tend to trade in relatively tight ranges because of their infrastructure-like characteristics, which makes covered call writing particularly effective. The options premium adds meaningful yield without dramatically capping the upside, since these stocks don't typically have the explosive moves you'd see in high-beta sectors.
The covered call strategy is managed actively, not mechanically. Greg and his team make decisions about which positions to write calls on, at what strike prices, and with what expirations based on their views on individual company catalysts and the broader volatility environment. If a stock is approaching a potential positive catalyst like an earnings beat or asset sale announcement, they'll avoid writing calls on that position to preserve the upside. The combined yield from dividends plus options premium puts MDST's distribution north of what the base portfolio alone would generate.
Energy Transition: Tailwind, Not Headwind
Greg pushes back hard on the idea that the energy transition threatens midstream companies. His argument: natural gas is the critical transition fuel, and pipelines are essential infrastructure for getting it from production basins to power plants, LNG export terminals, and industrial users. The build-out of renewables actually increases natural gas demand because gas-fired power plants serve as the backup when the wind stops blowing and the sun stops shining. And as the US becomes one of the world's largest LNG exporters, the demand for pipeline capacity continues to grow.
Beyond gas, Greg points to emerging opportunities in carbon capture and hydrogen transportation that would use existing pipeline infrastructure. Midstream companies are already exploring how to repurpose or expand their pipeline networks for these new energy carriers. He also notes that permitting new pipelines has become nearly impossible in many jurisdictions, which means existing infrastructure is becoming more valuable over time as demand grows against a fixed supply of pipeline capacity.
Key Takeaways
- Midstream companies are toll collectors with fee-based revenue from long-term contracts, not commodity price plays. Their earnings stability is closer to utilities than to E&P companies.
- MDST holds 20-30 midstream names and enhances the base 5-7% dividend yield with actively managed covered call writing, with call decisions driven by individual company catalysts rather than mechanical rules.
- The MLP-to-C-corp conversion wave eliminated K-1 headaches and simplified governance, making midstream equities accessible to a broader range of institutional and retail investors.
- Natural gas demand is increasing due to the energy transition, not decreasing, because gas-fired power plants serve as backup for intermittent renewables and LNG exports are booming.
- Permitting constraints on new pipeline construction make existing midstream infrastructure increasingly valuable as demand grows against a fixed supply of capacity.
Listen to the full conversation on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
Full Transcript
4,852 wordsMachine transcribed from Brad Roth's conversation with Greg Reid, with speakers identified automatically. Timestamps link to that moment on YouTube. Lightly cleaned, otherwise unedited.
Welcome to Behind the Ticker. I'm Brad Roth, Chief Investment Officer of Thor Financial Technologies and Portfolio Manager of THLV, the Thor Low Volatility ETF. Behind the Ticker uncovers the inner workings of the ETF industry. We will interview portfolio managers and ETF service providers to dive deep into their work lives and their businesses. We will learn the inner workings of their strategies and what drives them as they continue to grow their company. Many of these individuals are entrepreneurs and will have unique and compelling insights to share as much goes on behind the ticker. Please note, nothing in this show is investment advice and it is meant solely for educational and entertainment purposes only.
Welcome to Behind the Ticker. Today we have Greg Reed from Westwood. He is the president of Real Assets over there and today we are talking about the launch of the Westwood Enhanced Midstream Income ETF, ticker MDST. This ETF combines an income-focused approach with covered call writing and also consists of 20 to 22 high-yielding midstream energy stocks based all on their long-standing research over at Westwood. This is a one-of-a-kind fund. It is first to market combining high-yielding and energy play with a covered call strategy hoping to give double-digit yield to investors. So I think you'll find this product unique. I also think you'll find the conversation interesting. So without further
Ado, please welcome Mr. Greg Reed. Hey Greg, welcome to the show. Thanks Brad, appreciate it.
So before we get started, can you just tell all the listeners kind of who you are, your background,
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And kind of your current role over there at Westwood? Sure. Sure. My name is Greg Reed. I'm basically the president of Real Assets at Westwood. Westwood is a public company based in Dallas. Actually been public about 20 years. Westwood's 40 years old overall. I run the energy team in Houston, which is a six-person team managing about $2.3 billion in assets. I've been in the investment business now since 1987, so quite a long time. Most of my career down here in Texas. I grew up in Dallas. So I've worked in real estate, investment business, and now the energy business. Principally focused on income generating real assets that investors want to own for inflation protection and total return. Well, I would assume being in Dallas your whole
Life, you must be a Cowboys fan. it's funny. Okay. So I grew up in Dallas and I am a
Cowboys fan, but I've lived in Houston for 30 years. So I'm still a Cowboys fan. I like the Texans too. We're finally kind of putting it together. this receiver showing up is going to be
Really terrific for the next season, I think. Well, I went to a game at Jerry's World and it ruined going to Heinz Field for me. It was like being at Disney World. It's a really cool place to watch a game. Yeah, it's pretty crazy up there. So outside of work, I always like to ask
People, what do you like to do when you're not behind the desk? Well, I'm golfing late this afternoon. So that's nice. It's 80 degrees down here. So I'm good at playing nine holes. I was skiing last weekend up in Colorado, getting the last week of snow in. It snowed eight inches, so it's nice. I do outdoor things, mainly golfing and skiing and traveling. That's the thing I have
To do. Yeah. Well, you and I would get along because it's skiing here in the winter and golf in the summer. I'm getting out this afternoon and hit some balls with my wife. She's trying to pick up the game and I'm trying to be patient. I'm good. Yeah, that's great. So before we jump into the ETF, can you talk about Westwood as a firm? I know you guys do a lot of things. So can you tell us what Westwood does for clients as a whole?
Sure. Westwood is primarily an asset management firm. As I said, been public about 20 years. The historical strength of the firm has been value equities. We have a large value team in Dallas. It does small caps, mid cap, mid cap, large cap. And about $8 billion of our 16 is in value. So that's the core of the franchise. Westwood acquired Salient about a year and a half ago. Salient was based in Houston, had $4 billion. And I've been running the energy team for 15 years. So they bought us as an addition to their platform. And energy fits in great into the value DNA of the firm. Energy stocks are cheap, have high dividend yield. Our portfolio yields about 6%. And we have a tactical asset allocation business called Broadmark that was part of Salient. And then Westwood has a
Multi-asset class business that's run by my partner, Adrian Helford, that does a variety of things in both fixed income and equities. And so that's, I think, a very helpful strategy. So we also have a small wealth management business, about $3 billion that's in Dallas and Houston. So kind of Texas focus that is a trust company business.
So with all of those different things you guys do, what made Westwood or particularly you running the strategy jump into the ETF game? What was appealing? As I joked with a guest last week, I said, what made you jump into the ETF terror dome? Because there's so many of us and so many products. So what was attractive for getting this product to market in an ETF wrapper?
Well, our history started the business in 2007. We started with separate accounts. We then built commingled LP private funds. We launched closed-end funds, I think, in 2012. Two of them actually did two IPOs. And then we launched our open-end fund in 2012. So this is a natural evolution. The world is really moving in the direction of transparency, liquidity, and lower fees. ETFs are really the future. And so we've been thinking about how do we do this for a number of years. And we didn't want to be a me-too product, though. There are a lot of ETFs out there. We are the first to market with an energy ETF with covered calls. And we have noticed, as others have, there's been a lot of AUM growth and covered call riding. Investors obviously like it. And so we
Thought marrying our 6% yielding portfolio in midstream with covered call riding can get us to a double-digit dividend yield, which we are going to deliver. And so we actually seeded the strategy a year ago to prove how it worked. The first thing we did here at Westwood when we got here in November of 22 was begin planning for the ETFs. So we're thrilled that it took us 18 months to kind of figure out how to do it, hire the right providers, and get this thing launched and seeded. But here we are, and we're excited to finally have it out here. And to be first to market is really good. There are a lot of long-only MLP or midstream funds out there, but no one is really
Layering that in there with covered call riding, which kind of doubles the distributable income, which is pretty amazing. If you think about taking the yield, doubling the potential yield, from where it's a long-only portfolio, it also lowers the risk. When you write covered calls, the beta gets reduced by 10% to 15%. And so the combination of lower risk and higher yield is
Very attractive for many investors. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Before we get into the product, which is MDST, which is the Westwood Enhanced Midstream Income ETF, you guys recently launched, everything is still fresh. Can you talk about the process of getting this fund to market some of the key decisions you made along the way and even go into some of the service providers you partnered with?
Sure. Well, we talked to several people about who could partner with Westwood to help us launch, not just one, but this is a major decision for the firm. A 40-year-old firm thinks about things carefully and plots out the strategies. This is a major decision. We wanted to hire top quartile service providers and great partners. We have plans to launch two energy funds, one in a month, energy ETF. So we've got two on the drawing board we're going to launch, and I think we'll launch several more over time. So this is really a strategic decision for the firm. We ultimately picked partners that we thought had best-in-class knowledge and could help us build a real ETF franchise. We, of course, have a large distribution team that covers the wirehouses and RIAs and
Institutions. And so we wanted to marry up our existing resources at Westwood with $16 billion in assets with this new ETF technology. And then covered call writing is pretty specialized. We wanted to make sure we have good traders there that can help us execute on extracting. We call it harvesting. We're harvesting the volatility from the option market, and we're harvesting the income from midstream. And it turns out, we're looking at 6% from both pieces. And so those two numbers kind of let us deliver a double-digit dividend yield to our ETF investors.
So let's talk about the strategy. we've talked about the strategy at a high level. Covered call ETFs, as you've said, are becoming very popular. They're very popular on the equity side. And people are trying to do it in many different ways. And like you said, this is the first one. Actually, look, this is one of the only ones that I've seen. You said it's the only one. So can you talk about in a little bit more detail exactly what the strategy is doing underneath the hood in order to accomplish a double-digit yield? Sure. Absolutely. And I'll mention our existing
Mutual fund because it's a starting place. It's now 12 years old. We've been doing this a long time. SMLPX is our existing mutual fund. It's $968 million of assets today. And there, we use the same benchmark, AMEI, the Alarian Midstream Energy Select Index. So SMLPX is a total return-focused fund, meaning we're looking at the yield plus the dividend growth and appreciation as our objective. And it today yields about 5.3%. In the ETF, we're targeting an income approach first and foremost, and then tell return second. So what we do is we basically own similar stocks in the two strategies.
However, we naturally have a bias to pick higher yielding stocks in the ETF. So we're overweight some of the 7% and 8% yielders. There are a couple of stocks in the midstream market, like Chenier LNG, that only yields 1%. Well, that's not a great fit for an income product or target 2.5%. So we might underweight those and overweight TC Energy at 7% yield and Enbridge at 7.5%. That makes a lot more sense. So once we build the portfolio, and the portfolio yield today is 6.3% before fees. So the gross yield is 6.3%. We actually can get a little bit more yield than we are getting in SMLPX just by tweaking our stock selection. We're an actively managed ETF. We're a professional stock picker. We have a six-person
Team. We've been doing this 17 years. Then what we do is say, okay, we have what we think is the optimal portfolio for return. Let's layer on top one month or two-month covered calls. And so what we do there is we look at the listed option market, no private options, no flex options, just listed options that are liquid, price every day. And we basically try to sell options about 5% out of the money. So we don't want to cap our upside too close. We want to give ourselves attractive one-month upside. And at the same time, we want to bring in some premium by harvesting that volatility. So essentially, we just built the portfolio three days ago. We basically made about 65 basis points on option yield in 39 days.
And we have 5% upside on average across the 25 stocks we own. So when you annualize that 65 basis points, that's a pretty solid return. Now we have to assume a couple of stocks might get called away. So you might not make the whole option premium. We expect that a lot of those calls will expire worthless, but some may be in the money we have to roll them. And so every month, what we're going to do, and we use May options. So we're typically selling 31 days or longer. We want to have some duration there to get paid for the volatility. If we earn 80% or more of the time premium, we certainly are motivated to close them out early and book that gain. And that becomes distributable gain to our
Investor. And then we're going to sell new calls. So this portfolio will be probably 90% to 95% covered as a systematic strategy. And what we know about capital markets is they go up and they go down. And if you systematically apply this principle, we're going to make a fair number of gains on the options. And that'll basically allow us to distribute that out to our investors. And then we'll go to the tax treatment in a second. But the ETF structure is obviously the best structure for being tax efficient, way better than SMAs or mutual funds. So we can actually do tax loss harvesting, and we can do basket creations to get rid of low basis shares that might be called in the future. And so we can be very tax
Efficient in the ETF wrapper that frankly is not as easy to do in an SMA or mutual fund. So getting the ETF done for a covered call product, I think is really important. It'd be harder to do in another
Structure. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And you touched on this briefly. So one of the questions I had is, so how are you filtering down to kind of build the underlying holdings of the fund? And how concentrated is the fund in terms of number of holdings? I think you mentioned about 25 names. But of course, you're looking for yield. Can you kind of talk about the security selection process
Of what gets included in this portfolio? Sure. So the probably easiest way to describe it, everybody can follow is we look at the AMEI index, which is well known, published every day. So it has basically 25 constituents. The whole energy food chain has been consolidating. There's been a lot of M&A, Chevron, Exxon, and Oxy have bought companies. That's happened in midstream too. So we've seen a pretty solid consolidation. I actually think that's really good news for investors because there are fewer companies that are stronger. They have better balance sheets and frankly, are the survivors. We're dealing with the best of the best now. So within that 25 stock universe, we have research models in-house. We have three analysts that follow just sees, there's 25 in the index, but about 40 total midstream companies. We have proprietary in-house
Models. We have strong opinions about the next 12 months and next three year returns for each stock. So naturally, we want to pick the ones that we have the, that we had most positive view on. And we want to avoid, there could be a few dogs and cats in that index. So we don't want to buy those stocks or weaker performers or fully valued stocks. Might not be a dog, but just a fully valued company that we don't want to own. So we go through our bottom-up stock research and we build the portfolio. We have about 20 to 22 names in the portfolio. So we don't own every single one. We skip some that we think, are fully valued or have less upside.
And then it comes down to a weighting decision. I think that there's more and more alpha generated by the weight that we choose rather than owning the stock or not. For example, energy transfer is 9.7% of the index. We think that's a phenomenal company, one of the cheapest MLPs. So we're, we are going to have the largest position possible and we're really effectively capped at 10% in the mutual fund. So that we're going to have fully, built out in the portfolio. Whereas at the bottom end of the food chain, there's a stock, Tellurian at 28 cents. Well, that company's probably not, one of the best companies in the, in the universe. It's, there's not much value there. So we're not going to own that one, for example.
So we can skip some of these smaller ones at the bottom of the food chain that might, might not be the best long-term investment and kind of focus more on investment grade, high quality companies that we think are winners. And then if you marry up a six to 8% yielding company and write a covered call for 50 or 60 basis points a month and do that 12 times, you're bringing in six, seven or 8% a year in option yield on top of the six to 8% dividend yield. That's the winning formula right there. And candidly, we don't need lots of appreciation in the company to make our target return. We, we can, deliver a 10 to 11, 12% dividend yield and still have portfolio upside. So that's how we think about it.
Yeah, no, that's a great way to think about it. One more question on portfolio construction. And you touched on it again briefly, which would be, so you've got 20 to 22 names. And from what I noticed is they're not all equally weighted. So there's some conviction, uh, bias in, in waiting. So how are those waiting decisions made? Is it based off of your proprietary models of who you think is going to be, your biggest winner? I'm sure there's some, uh, decisions around what the yield is, because again, this is a yielding, this is a high yield product. Um, so can you talk about, how the waiting decisions are made at that individual equity level?
Yeah, absolutely. So we have, we basically have a spreadsheet of all the stocks in our universe and the index. We have, um, our own view of the next 12 month return, uh, which we include the dividend yield in that next 12 month return. Then we have the street consensus. So we look at what does our team, our analysts think, who we trust, what are all the sell side analysts think, marry those up and try to say, okay, it seems like we're seeing the same thing. Some of the analysts are seeing look for outliers there. Um, and then we, we naturally, probably have a, uh, uh, uh, a leaning to not own a couple of low yielding names just because they don't provide a
Lot of dividend yield for an income strategy, not as attractive there. Um, but those stocks tend to be more volatile. So you can, you can earn more on the option yield. And then in a Rick fund, we're, we're a Rick fund, which means we have to cap the MLP ownership at 25%. So we really can't overweight MLPs here structurally. Um, we, we don't, we don't want to be taxed as a C corp mutual fund. Uh, that that's a huge burden. You could be talking about two to 400 basis points of extra expense if we tried to wrap a C corp wrapper around it. So we live below 25%. We're actually 24.9, right at the limit. And, um, basically we also have to abide by this bad asset test, which means our,
We can't go over 50%. So really there's, there's a lot of skill in kind of getting the stocks up to the 49.8, 49.9 bad asset test and maximizing the MLP exposure at 24.9. And that's why you find a lot of stocks are right around 4.9. Um, we might've preferred to be at six and we have to be 4.9 just because we can't cross over on bad assets. We're right now about 49% bad assets and 24.8% MLP by design. And the beauty is every month, every, every day we can tweak that. We're, we, we can easily manage the two exposures to be compliant every quarter. That's no problem. We've been doing that for 12 years. So that's easy. So it kind of comes down to optimizing the returns of the stocks,
The weights, and then we have to look at the listed option market and look at May and June calls and say, okay, for this company, are we better off selling a one month call or a two month call? How much upside do we see as a money manager? Let's not cap our upside too much. Let's give ourself most of the upside while still, raking in that option premium. And that's where the skill and kind of special sauce comes from. So literally it's a moving target. Right. Every day we're building the model and we're, we're, we're tweaking the option strike and what the weight is on each stock. So literally every day we're tweaking the model because we're getting flows every day and we want to have a fresh model. So literally you could argue it's being rebalanced.
The model's changing every day because the stocks move around a lot. Um, but we're trying to be very tax efficient on the portfolio. So we're not selling the stocks. We're buying and holding them and we want to get long-term capital gains treatment. So I look at it as very actively managed, but it's long-term in nature and very tax efficient and strategy. So, uh, being as you are a new fund, I mean,
You launched what a couple of weeks, a week ago, two weeks ago, three days ago. Yeah. All right. Well, when this comes out, it'll be two weeks. Um, you think the, the hard part of this is all in the structure and you guys are doing extremely unique things in terms of the strategy, right? Um, how are you going about thinking about marketing the fund from this stage going forward and kind of the target audience for this product? Because to me, what you're doing is extremely sophisticated and unique. So I would think that your target is probably more institutional or investment advisors rather than retail. So have you guys put thought, I'm sure you've put thought into how you're going to be kind of getting the word out there and starting to get flows into this product?
Sure. Um, because it's an income focused product, I think naturally it's going to appeal to, uh, retail or high net worth investors at their core. I don't think a lot of institutions necessarily want to target the income as much. They, they, they, over time, as the fund gets larger, we'll certainly talk to institutions, but I think initially it's going to be high net worth and RIA type, uh, oriented people. There are, there are so many people that are retired that are running balanced portfolio, 60, 40 or 50, 50. And we can literally take our basic mutual fund, which has a 5.3% yield and double it. When you can do that and give someone a 10 to 11% yield and still have upside and lower their beta that all of a sudden, in my mind becomes an income solution,
Not an energy solution. This could be a great IRA vehicle. You could actually trim some of your high yield bonds and your public equities and make this kind of a hybrid solution in the middle of, it's an equity product, but it's less risky because the covered call piece, it basically shifts the beta from a one beta of the index to about a 0.85. So we're actually less risk, higher yield, more steady return because that dividend is going to be paid monthly. So I think that becomes more of an income solution. And I think that could broaden the number of people that want to apply it. We don't have to just cater to energy investors. This could be, a real asset investment within an income portfolio. And so I think this
Will end up appealing to a lot more people than just our standard mutual fund will.
So, and continuing on that path would be, if you were sitting down with a registered investment advisor who has a model portfolio put together for his clients and you're carving out a seat for yourself inside of that model portfolio, where would you like to see this inside of that? Was it again, more of a fixed income alternative? Would you peel from a little bit of both and almost put it in an alt sleeve? how are you thinking about that?
A great question. And, we try to, tailor everything to the RIA or advisor or, a large platform, a broker-deer platform. I'd probably say, to them, do you have a real asset sleeve that includes REITs and energy and inflation protection investments? It certainly belongs there. This is ultimately a value equity. So it's part of the equity portfolio for sure. Many of these stocks are in the S&P 500. Williams, Kendrick Morgan, et cetera, their S&P names. So this can be a less market sensitive, lower beta equity solution for someone that's perhaps, in their 60s or 70s and retired, wants to take less risk and get the return of equities. And then, I wouldn't say it's
A substitute for fixed income as much, but you could make room for this, three to five percent and take some out of high yield riskier bonds and some out of, S&P 500 equities, which only have a 1.3 percent yield. You could take some out of that and plug this in at a 10 or 11 yield and feel like you're adding value to the client's portfolio because you're picking up that guaranteed income while lowering the beta. And so I think it could be in the alternative bucket, but these are all public stocks. So it's probably more likely to be in the equity bucket, but an income value add. And there's so, so many, so few, the market's, it's, it's had a good rally. So S&P only yields 1.3. That's not really much income for anybody.
AGG, big bond doesn't have much income either. So I think people are always searching for how do they, how do they solve for the retiree income? And you don't have to be retired to want income. I want income on my portfolio to spend for travel and fun things like that. AGG only yields 3.6 percent. So when you, if you do 60, 40 S&P at 1.3 and 40 at 3.6, you're at 2.2 percent. Right. You're better off buying money market. It's not much income on your portfolio. So I think our solution, really stands out as, as being a value add to the portfolio.
Well, Greg, it's a very unique and interesting product. There's a lot of merit to it. I think you guys are going to have a lot of success in this space, but before I let you go, first of all, thank you for your time. And I appreciate you doing this and spending some time with us. But secondly, where can people learn more about Westwood and MDST?
I think it's right to our website. You can just Google MDST and that'll pop up. But then Westwood ETFs is our website. So brand new, it's our first ETF. So we've got a lot of materials on there about ETFs and about energy. our team's been managing, billions of dollars in energy now since 2007, we started, but billions since around 2012. So, 14 years of being a boutique energy money manager. I'm thrilled that we're first to market with a covered call product because there's a lot of covered call products out there. And this is the only one in energy. So the market leader hopefully, gets the worm first and gets most of the flows.
I did the math on the 60-40. So if you do 60 SPY and 40 AGG, you have a whopping 2.2% dividend yield before you pay the advisor fees. That's not giving your client much income. We're going to be 10 plus.
Yeah. Well, again, it's a very, very attractive, very compelling season team. So again, Greg, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks, Brad. Appreciate it.
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