Taylor Krystkowiak
Thematic ETFs at Scale: 40+ Funds
Taylor Krystkowiak comes from Themes ETFs, a firm founded by Jose Gonzalez, the former co-founder of Global X. Taylor's background spans investment strategy at Raymond James (where he worked as a macroeconomic analyst), derivatives strategies at CboVest, and now product development at Themes. The firm launched within the last year and is already bringing a lineup of thematic and targeted ETFs to market at competitive price points. On this episode of Behind the Ticker, Taylor joins Brad to discuss GSIB, the Global Systemically Important Bank ETF, which holds the 28 banks designated as "too big to fail" by regulators.
Too Big to Fail as an Investment Thesis
GSIB targets the 28 banks globally that have been designated as Global Systemically Important Banks by the Financial Stability Board. These are the institutions deemed so critical to the global financial system that they receive enhanced regulatory oversight, higher capital requirements, and, implicitly, a government backstop. The list includes names like JP Morgan, Bank of America, HSBC, BNP Paribas, and Barclays, among others.
Taylor's investment case for concentrating on G-SIBs rather than buying a broad financial sector ETF rests on three arguments. First, these banks have competitive moats created by regulation itself. The higher capital requirements that G-SIB designation imposes actually make these institutions more resilient and create barriers to entry that protect their market positions. Second, the implicit too-big-to-fail guarantee means they have lower cost of funding than smaller banks, which translates directly to higher profitability. Third, they have dramatically lower exposure to the commercial real estate risks that have been weighing on regional and mid-size banks.
Performance and the Commercial Real Estate Advantage
Taylor puts some numbers on the performance story. Through the end of July, Barclays was up 56% year-to-date, trouncing six of the seven Magnificent Seven stocks. These aren't the kind of returns people normally associate with 300-year-old banking institutions. The broader G-SIB cohort has delivered double-digit returns in an environment where financial sector concentration in regional banks has been a source of anxiety.
One of the lesser-discussed drivers of G-SIB outperformance is their low exposure to commercial real estate. The post-COVID shift to remote work has devastated office properties. The IMF has labeled commercial real estate as one of the biggest financial risks to stability. Office sector values were down over 23% over the preceding year. But G-SIBs, because of their diversified global operations and regulatory capital requirements, have relatively minimal exposure to this ticking time bomb compared to regional banks that often have concentrated CRE loan books.
Taylor also discusses the interest rate dynamic. While markets had been pricing in rate cuts, the commercial real estate problem isn't solved by modest rate reductions. Loans taken out at 3-4% rates need to be refinanced at significantly higher rates, and many office buildings have occupancy rates that don't support the economics. By investing in G-SIBs instead of broad financials, investors sidestep this concentration risk while still getting exposure to the banking sector's earnings power.
Diversification Beyond the Magnificent Seven
Taylor makes an interesting portfolio construction argument. Most investors' equity exposure is dominated by technology stocks through their S&P 500 or NASDAQ holdings. The Magnificent Seven have driven the majority of market returns, creating significant concentration risk. G-SIBs offer double-digit return potential from a completely different sector and geographic base. Because the fund holds banks globally (not just U.S. institutions), it also provides international diversification that many portfolios lack.
Brad and Taylor discussed how unusual it is to see this kind of return from the banking sector. The combination of higher interest rates boosting net interest margins, disciplined capital return programs (buybacks and dividends), and the relative safety of the G-SIB designation has created a rare moment where conservative banking stocks are delivering growth-like returns.
Themes ETFs: A Familiar Playbook
The firm itself is worth noting. Jose Gonzalez built Global X into one of the most successful thematic ETF platforms in the industry before it was acquired by Mirae Asset. Now he's running a similar playbook with Themes: launch differentiated products at competitive price points and build a suite that covers specific investment themes the market is underserving. Taylor says more products are in the pipeline, with a second tranche of launches planned.
Key Takeaways
- GSIB holds the 28 globally systemically important banks designated as "too big to fail," giving investors concentrated exposure to the most regulated, well-capitalized financial institutions in the world.
- Barclays alone was up 56% year-to-date through July, outperforming six of seven Magnificent Seven stocks. G-SIBs are delivering growth-like returns from traditionally conservative banking names.
- G-SIBs have minimal commercial real estate exposure compared to regional banks, sidestepping what the IMF has labeled one of the biggest financial risks to stability.
- Themes ETFs was founded by Jose Gonzalez, co-founder of Global X, running a similar playbook of differentiated thematic products at competitive price points.
- The fund provides sector and geographic diversification away from tech-dominated portfolios, holding banks across the U.S., Europe, Asia, and other global markets.
Listen to the full conversation on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
Full Transcript
4,903 wordsMachine transcribed from Brad Roth's conversation with Taylor Krystkowiak, with speakers identified automatically. Timestamps link to that moment on YouTube. Lightly cleaned, otherwise unedited.
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Welcome to Behind the Ticker. Today we have on Taylor Kraskowiak. And if you saw how that was spelled, you might be mildly impressed with me. He is from Themes ETFs. We are talking about GSIB or GSIB, their global systemically important bank ETF. So think about too big to fail. There are 28 of those banks. We talk about the most recent performance of which it's done well. We talk about some of the systemic risks that are actually taken out of the portfolio by removing some of the commercial bank and regional exposures that are kind of in traditional financial ETFs.
But overall, I think you'll find this conversation really interesting with Mr. Taylor Kraskowiak.
Hey, Taylor. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Brad. It's a pleasure to be here.
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So before we get started, can you give everybody a little bit of your background and how you eventually got to Themes ETFs?
Absolutely. In the way of a quick background, I've worked at a number of different firms ranging from Fortune 500 down to some small boutique asset managers. I started my career in investment strategy where I worked as a macroeconomic analyst, looking at all things investment strategy, taking a look at global markets from that macro perspective, and ultimately transitioned to the asset management side where I was able to apply that macroeconomic analysis background to actionable investments in a portfolio. I transitioned from Raymond James, where I worked at investment strategy, to CBOVest, which is a boutique asset manager focused on derivative strategies, before finally leaving the company with a colleague of mine to help start Themes ETFs, which is founded by Jose Gonzalez, former co-founder of GlobalX.
Just started the firm in the last year and really excited about the strategies that we're bringing to market, especially at some of the more competitive price points relative to the competition.
Yeah. And we're going to talk about all that. It looks like you guys have launched a handful of funds. But before we get into the business stuff, I always like to ask, when you're not working, any hobbies, things you like to do?
Yeah. A number of things. When it's winter weather, love to find myself on the ski slope, was raised out in Colorado, so make my way out to the Rockies whenever I can, try to catch some good snow out that way. And in the summertime, I often find myself horseback riding, live in Northern Virginia, horse country here. So whether that's polo or some ski chasing out in the field, been a great way to get out and enjoy the great outdoors.
Well, you are the first polo player on the podcast. So congratulations. Thank you very much. So let's talk about Themes ETF as a whole. You guys have about 13 ETFs at the moment. Can you talk about strategy, what you guys are specializing in, what you're trying to get out there in the market?
Yeah, absolutely. I think the common denominator behind all of our products is we took a look at the market and saw that there was an opportunity to bring some strategies to market at a lower price point, specifically focusing on the thematic side of the investment equation. As one would expect with a company named Themes ETFs, our first round of product launches focused on some of those niche investments, whether that's artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, cloud computing, or some of the more traditional sectors, whether that be banks, airlines, European luxury brands, and giving investors that targeted exposure to a subsection of the market, but ultimately doing so at a more competitive price point.
Across the board, our products are about 40% cheaper than the category average. And we saw that this was an opportunity to lower that price point for investors since we all know that over the course of the long run, those fees are going to eat into your total returns. And in an environment where total market returns may be a little bit more muted going forward, that's going to ultimately give you a windfall in the terms of the overall portfolio performance you can expect from some of these strategies. But ultimately, at the end of the day, one of the things that we're trying to do is provide a menu of options, a buffet bar of sorts that give investors access to whatever strategy, whatever trade they want to play in the current market.
So like I said, the first batch of ETFs that we launched, we have 13 live right now that all focus primarily on thematics as well as some fundamental strategies. But in our next round of products, we're also going to have a number of leveraged inverse on single names, as well as some derivative strategies as well. So really running the entire spectrum from just plain vanilla equity to more complex derivative strategies.
So is the idea when launching product more trying to find areas that are seeing flows, but might be a little bit more expensive? Or are you trying to find themes in areas that maybe are up and coming or kind of just working off of what's hot now? Like what's the what kind of what's the art behind it in when you guys are deciding to launch product?
So what you just described is a perfect combination of both. And that is primarily what we look at, which is a where are the assets, where are the flows right now? And to what extent can we replicate a similar strategy at a more competitive price point, or in some cases, perhaps even improve the underlying methodology. So to give a similar exposure, but ultimately tweak some of the criteria to make it just a bit better, at least, in terms of some of the quality and fundamental factors that we look at when developing that methodology in constructing some of the indices that these funds track. And then separately, to your point, the other thing that we've tried to look and see if there are any novel strategies that have not been implemented yet, that may have potential, one of
Which we'll discuss at length today. But looking at a combination of both where existing assets are and where we might be able to offer a similar strategy at a lower price point, or offering a strategy that has not yet been brought to market, because we believe that there is some credibility to that investment methodology that has potential for total return that may not yet be tapped by current issuers.
Got it. So as you alluded to, we're here to talk specifically today about GSIB, which is your global, systematically important bank ETF. So first, what is globally, systematically important mean to you?
It's an incredible mouthful, and one that requires a little bit of unpacking here. But as one would expect from the actual name, global, systemically important banks are just that they are global, and they are systemically important to the global financial system. In short, and more in plain English, these are the too big to fail institutions. And what we mean by that is any failure in one of these institutions would cause a significant impact on the global financial system. This whole concept emerged in the wake of the financial crisis in 2007, 2008, where we saw, obviously, a huge impact on the entire global economy from financial contagion, much of which originated at some of these larger institutions.
So when the supervisory and regulatory authorities got together, what they realized was, look, we need to identify some of these big institutions, those that have systematic importance to the global financial system, and ultimately hold these banks and these institutions to a higher regulatory requirement. So over that, again, these, 15 years that that has been in place, we've seen these banks ultimately thrive, they've had been subject to higher capital and liquidity requirements, such that they can absorb losses in the event of a significant financial event. And over time, and what we've really seen over the last couple years is that these banks specifically have really benefited from the macroeconomic environment.
And some of the things that have been really dragging down some of their smaller counterparts since central banks started raising interest rates two years ago. And when we put all of this together, what we've really seen is that these banks are actually posting performance that is rivaling even the biggest tech stocks, Magnificent Seven stocks, and many of which are actually up higher than those Magnificent Seven stocks so far year to date. We'll unpack that in a little bit more detail. But that is essentially what we're looking at in investing in those 28 publicly traded global systemically important banks. Really, like I said, it's a bit of a mouthful of an acronym, but it's really the too big to fail banks that we're looking at and investing in those banks specifically, and excluding smaller
And regional banks. And we'll explain in more detail why we think that that's important, both historically and going forward in the future.
So let's get into that a little bit. But before we do, can you kind of talk to me about what the benefits of investing in an ETF like this, rather than what most advisors do, they're just going to go out and buy XLF exposure, direct financial exposure. So to you, what are the key benefits of getting this type of exposure rather than just blanket financial exposure or sector exposure?
So this is, I think, where we go back to kind of our thesis as an issuer and saying that picking out specific subsections of a sector, specific slices of a market, or ultimately may generate better returns than investing in the sector more broadly. an apt comparison over the last couple of years was just identifying some of the big tech firms that were the beneficiaries. I think it's a big movement, especially, towards artificial intelligence, and how those stocks did relative to the broader index. Similar story can be painted in the banking world. So to your point, instead of just drawing broad financial exposure, here, we're focusing on investing in just those big banks.
And there are a few great both anecdotal reasons for that, as well as some analytical reasons. And so as we know, back in March 2023, we saw that banking crisis, right? So we had a number of big names go under Silicon Valley Bank, First Republic Bank. And it really caused some shockwaves to go through the system because these smaller banks were succumbing to the impact of higher rates, but higher rates that were implemented very, very quickly as the Federal Reserve and other central banks felt like they had to play catch up to get back in front of inflation. And ultimately, these smaller institutions proved incapable of weathering the increase in interest rates, both the magnitude and the pace of those rate increases.
And ultimately, the larger banks not only weathered that storm, but they were the ones that were some of the beneficiaries of the collapses of those smaller banks. So for example, JP Morgan was able to buy out the assets of First Republic at distressed pricing. And we've seen that actually be a windfall in the overall performance of JP Morgan since that date. So this is the specific answer to your question in short. So instead of buying a broad based index, which includes some of these smaller regional banks that ultimately found themselves on the wrong end of this macroeconomic dynamic, where they were feeling the pinch from these higher rates, these bigger guys ultimately fared a lot better.
So this is one of those instances where selecting those big banks and flocking towards quality did, in fact, make a difference. And in this case, the bigger the institution, the better the outcome was, generally speaking, across the board. And focusing your exposure on just those big guys ultimately had a really big impact. So to put a couple of numbers around this, so if we take a look at how those global systemically important banks did, starting in January 2022, when the Fed first started announcing that it was going to start hiking interest rates, through today's date, those names are up over 35%. Just for comparison, banks in general over that same time period, the entire sector down 7%. So really significant differential there. And just another point of reference,
Over that same time period, Nasdaq and S&P up just 21% and 20% respectively. So we're seeing GSIBs outperforming not only their regional and peers in the banking industry, but also the broader market as well in general, because of this dynamic and because they have been insulated from this wave of higher interest rates. And they've ultimately benefited from this environment for a number of different reasons.
So a two-part question here, and you might have referenced it a little bit. Do you see investing in GSIB almost because these banks are so big and so systemically important, do you also see this as a little bit of a risk management play rather than just holding the entire financial sector as a whole?
Absolutely. And you could even extrapolate this further. And it being a risk management play beyond tech that we've seen most of the major indices become very, very tech heavy. I think we saw over the course of the last month, this was a bit of a wake up call when the fear was that a lot of these tech stocks were priced to perfection. And some of them were selling off in the wake of, even beating earnings, but not beating earnings to the same magnitude as the street expected. We saw that occur in Microsoft. NVIDIA was even taking a little bit of a plunge. And ultimately, I think there was a bit of concern that when investing in some of these major indices, whether it be Nasdaq or the S&P 500, you ultimately were buying into just a handful of
Stocks that were driving the majors and predominance of the growth in the market. So to your point, beyond just diversifying risk in the financial sector specifically, more broad based actually being able to diversify your growth beyond some of the tech heavy names that have been historically the significant sources of return over the course of the last year. And just to put some numbers here, some of the you normally don't associate these big banks, some of which are, 300 year institutions like Barclays with double digit returns, yet that's the sort of returns that some of these banks are putting up. So just to round out a couple of them, year to date through the end of July, Barclays, a bank like Barclays is up 56%. That's trouncing six of the seven magnificent stocks,
For example. So just, again, I think contextualizing how this performance is comparing to some of the bigger household names, the magnificent seven names, as an important way to diversify your portfolio exposure away from some of those names that may have, become a bit of a concentration risk across indices and across portfolios.
So you've, you've mentioned the performance in a rising rate environment and the impressive performance overall, like first, what do you attribute that performance, driver in this type of environment? And then secondly, as we might start to see in September rates come down, how do you think that'll impact GSIB and, more specifically, these big banks?
Yeah, I think it's a there's a couple of things to unpack here and to kind of wade into the analytics as to why GSIBs have done so well. One of the big, I think, lesser talked about reasons for this performance is their relatively low exposure to commercial real estate. So, anecdotally, we know that there was a huge sea change in the wake of COVID and post pandemic, we saw everyone working from home, there being a flight to, the suburbs out of the city. And ultimately, we saw a lot of these big office buildings sit vacant. And for example, over the course of the last year, the office sector down over 23%. And this commercial real estate has really turned into a bit of a ticking time bomb. The IMF has labeled it as one of the biggest financial risks to stability.
And the thing that everyone I think, fails to, I think, really appreciate in terms of how the interest rate dynamic currently impacts the commercial real estate market is, even though we got, some some good data this month, and after the press conference from the Fed this week, it seems all all, systems are go for a cut in September, and then ultimately, incremental cuts after that. The thing is, is that the Fed still has not started cutting interest rate, and everyone is starting to price in the impacts of falling rates. But the reality is, that as all of these commercial real estate loans come due, they still have to be refinanced at the prevailing rates of interest. So we have over $800 billion of commercial real estate exposure
Out there, that has to get refinanced at these high interest rates, because the Fed still has not cut yet. And as a result, we're seeing losses mount in that particular sector of the market. And this is where GSIBs really stand out, to get, kind of into the weeds, technically, on a relative basis, GSIBs have four times lower exposure to commercial real estate relative to their smaller regional peers. And this is where that quality and those regulatory requirements for these big banks are really making them stand out. And as a result of that, they have higher capitalization, they have higher liquidity, and they have lower exposure to this commercial real estate time bomb that I think is just kind of a car crash in slow motion, that's really been dragging some of these
Smaller banks. And we've seen that in the performance. So there's been a flight to quality, I think, over the course of the entire banking sector, moving into these bigger names, these GSIB names, and away from these smaller regional names, because they continue to get dragged down, due to their both commercial real estate exposure, as well as their inability to weather some of the losses associated with these higher rates. And then finally, back to your point about where we stand kind of in the dynamics of interest rates, we have to remember that we've been in an inverted curve environment for a long while now, the short end of the curve has been significantly higher than the long end of the curve, which generally speaking, is bad news for banking at its most fundamental level, we know that
Banks revolve around what's known as a carry trade, right? They ultimately take deposits and loan that money out at theoretically higher rates of interest, further out on the curve. And, and because of the inversion of the curve right now, that that's not possible. So it's, it's, and because of that, it's been hurting some of these smaller banks that haven't been able to weather that dynamic as well as the G-SIP banks have. And the other thing that's interesting about G-SIPs is that not only have they attracted more customer deposits, their deposits are up 30% relative to their pre-pandemic levels. And we've seen more customers gravitate towards banking with these larger banks.
We've also seen things like their non-interest income, things like their investment banking revenues, things like their wealth management revenues that they've collected from fees on asset under management, and cost cutting measures. You put all of those together, it's ultimately led to this better performance of the G-SIP names. And importantly, it's also insulated from a lot of this, I think, pressure that we've seen on tech lately. So finally, to wrap this all up with some numbers, year to date, we've seen our G-SIP fund up 21%, handily outperforming both the Nasdaq only up 15%, the S&P up 16% through the end of July so far this year. So that, I think, is really where the rubber meets the road. And you see all of these underlying dynamics translated into performance.
So again, outperforming not only the peer group of other banks, but outperforming the market in general.
So let's talk about the inner workings of G-SIP. You've mentioned it's 28 names. How are you getting to those 28 names? Is there a screen that you run? Is there a published list of what is systemically important? How do you get to the names?
So fortunately, that work is all done for us. We really are just following the lead of the Financial Stability Board and the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision. Each year, they publish a list of the banks that they deem to be globally systemically important. And in our case, we just invest on an equally weighted basis across those 28 publicly traded G-SIPs. And we equally weight those in the fund. And ultimately, so instead of trying to pick a single bank that we think may be doing better than another, we equally weight that exposure across all of those names. Because since we believe that there is common quality across the board, since they are all held to this same sort of stringent regulatory requirement. And fortunately, that strategy, as we've said, has done very,
Very well as a result.
So historically, are there ever any additions or subtractions to that list? Like, could you foresee holdings changing on an annual basis?
It is certainly possible. In fact, we saw that the one notable example of this was in the midst of the banking crisis in 2023. We saw a big name like Credit Suisse actually have to file for bankruptcy. And ironically, it was actually acquired by another G-SIP firm, UBS. So there we did see a rotation there. There was, Credit Suisse was dropped from that list, but ultimately, it was acquired by another G-SIP name. So in practice, if you're on that list, you're either going to stay on that list for the foreseeable future, or in the event that you face headwinds like Credit Suisse did, ultimately, you're going to find yourself acquired by another big G-SIP institution like UBS.
So that's, I think, an example of one of the rare cases where we did see a change in that list. Apart from that, this list is generally a pretty, tried and true list of the banks that we all know that have been around for a long, long time. And that list is not necessarily prone to significant changes over time.
So we've got 28 names, we're equally weighted. Are you, do you have guardrails on when you're rebalancing? Or do you have a schedule? Is it quarterly, annually, monthly? Like how often are you repulling these things back in line?
So this is a quarterly rebalance. So we do try to bring all of those names back into equal late once per quarter. And that's ultimately what we've, I think, found over our backtesting. And that strategy has, I think, done well to make sure you're getting that even and equal weighted exposure to all of those 28 names.
So if you're sitting in an advisor's office, they've got an existing model portfolio they've been running for a number of years, where are you recommending G-SIP gets added? Or where would you slot this?
So this is where we've, to your point earlier, you can see this as obviously an easy way to replace some of your existing exposure to financials, or to banks in general, to the extent that you have exposure to that subsection of the market. But given the performance that we've seen from these names, and some of the low volatility with which it's delivered that performance, we can actually see this as a replacement, even just for your core equity growth in your portfolio. And I think as advisors get more nervous about the tech situation, the over concentration in fewer names, the prospect that, this artificial intelligence hype may not live up to the, earnings multiples that have been priced out by the market. And as a result of all of
That, there is a place for G-SIP in a portfolio to diversify that growth. again, I think the numbers speak for themselves, the fact that the funds outperforming the market, year to date, by a pretty significant margin makes this a candidate to diversify growth beyond some of these more volatile tech names, and obviously dependent upon individual risk tolerance and time horizon, you can see how, putting big, established banks at a larger percentage of a portfolio may be appealing, especially for clients and investors that may be closer to retirement and may not be able to stomach some of the more significant volatility that we've seen out of some of the more growthy areas of the market, tech being one that comes to mind, and being able to at
Least diversify your sources of growth. And this is where I think G-SIP could be a real shining example of ways that you can obtain growth in other parts of the market beyond tech.
So the firm as a whole is fairly new. This ETF is fairly new. And congratulations on the, success so far, particularly performance. what strategies are you employing over there to get the word out on this fund? And how do you guys think about distribution as a whole over there?
So this is where, we really kind of practice what we preach in terms of being able to pass on savings from our low overhead to consumers and investors in the form of lower fees. So ultimately, we're actually kind of applying some of the same things that we believe in for investment strategies in our business. So for example, we're implementing actually a lot of artificial intelligence solutions to make our outreach and distribution efforts a lot more efficient. So we're trying to target advisors who may already own exposure to these strategies, and or may be interested in some research that we've produced and published. So we've been able to work much more efficiently, I think, with both fewer heads, so to speak, and relative to some of the
Traditional distribution models that ordinarily require significantly higher head count, we're able to run a leaner shop and a leaner organization. And because of that, we're able to pass on those savings directly to investors in the form of lower fees. So that's really where I think the rubber hits the road in terms of we're trying to implement a pretty lean business model and, again, pass those savings on to investors. And beyond that, we have also seen a tremendous, tremendous uptake, I think, in some of these points, specifically, in some of our research that we've published, highlighting this commercial real estate dynamic, given the fact that we're the only fund right now, that focuses purely on these GSIB banks, we've seen get a lot of traction, because there's just not a strategy out there like it
Right now. So both the novelty of the strategy itself, as well as its relevance in the current macro economic environment, I think has led to some of the traction that we've seen in the flows in the fund. And again, with a much more efficient distribution mechanism, we're able to, I think, get in front of more people with fewer heads at our organization.
So Taylor, I really appreciate your time. Before I let you go, where can people learn more about your ETFs and learn more about you?
We are found on themesetfs.com. So just as just like thematics, themesetfs.com is where you can find all of our ETFs, more information about each one of the strategies, top reasons to invest, as well as the performance of the funds and their costs relative to the overall competition. All of that will be there. We're also on all social media channels as well, LinkedIn, Twitter, and LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram, and Reddit as well.
Well, again, Taylor, I really appreciate your time and hope to have the opportunity to have you back on in the future as you launch your second tranche of funds. Likewise. Thank you so much for your time, Brad. It's been an absolute pleasure.
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